I Finished Vengeance Quest!

After finishing Vengeance Quest, I posted a celebratory post in the Redwall Fanfiction Board along with my thoughts on the story and themes. The thoughts section can be found under Stories. Here's the comments, reviews, and replies that resulted.

• Novlue:
  My God... that story is a classic... I can't believe it's really done. That's fantastic, Snow. As the others said, congrats, and of course I'm going to read it this week.
• Searat:
  I may do a more in-depth, specific literary analysis of this story at some point, but for now I'll merely give some hopefully not all redundant response to your thoughts on your work. Hopefully this will satiate you for a bit.
  
  "It's amazing how my style has evolved over time."
  I would very definitely agree with this. Don't know whether I was prompted to think this way by your comments on the subject or not. But that's irrelevant. From a more critical reading standpoint, I could clearly tell the progression of writing ability over time. Even the original chapters are strong, but it's rather nice to note that rather than stay on an even keel or go downhill from there, the plot evolves and matures (and I'm not speaking of the 'mature content, but the writing style). The complexity of the plot advances in leaps and bounds, from the rather simplistic, Redwallish traditional writing towards the beginning, and evolving into something with a little more depth, where the motivations behind character actions are less straightforward and the repercussions of conflicts run deeper than merely blood for blood.
  It seems to move, to some extent, from a more action-based plot to a character driven one, as you write deeper into the minds of characters and reveal their internal conflicts. Kiern and Riala, who lie at the center of everything, are rightfully best roleplayed, a constant turmoil of emotions and counter-emotions, so to speak, driving their actions and painting their weaknesses. Further, this helps the supporting cast, who by their natural reactions to the signals this pair give off become stronger and more fully embodied themselves, taking advantage where manipulation will be effective and remaining subservient where one would expect them to bide their time. The characters that one would expect to grow and change in reaction to their environment do so nicely, and this refinement of ideals and actions add a touch of realism to them.
  
  "I've explored quite a few themes, as well."
  Yes, the theme development is another effective tool. That's really the driving force behind the characters, and that makes them effective at the response that they prompt from a reader's perspective. A story amounts to nothing when you can't get yourself to care about the characters, and these characters very definitely are well-defined enough for their fates not only to be interesting, but to matter. The constant struggle to deal with the results of these themes, whether it be center around hatred, love or duty, to rephrase the centerpoint of your self--analysis, gives the story life. The questions presented as to how the characters will deal with internal and external forces beg to be answered, and are to the point where they need to be.
  At the same time, the mental struggle over ten-thousand different issues, something people can most definitely relate to, is never fully resolved. Some fears need only be conquered once, but the doubt and frustration that lie at the heart of strong internal emotion have power, and that is used very well. There is enough uncertainty left over about how a thought or emotion will be responded to the next time to continue to drive an interest in the fate of a given character, and at the same time the characters' struggles also prompt personal thought and analysis of certain ideas and beliefs by readers, which shows an effective and full use of an opportunity to teach lessons through what is suggested on the surface to be merely a story.

  "The subplot with Kiern and the horde was originally just an experiment."
  This strikes a very nice balance to the main storyline. It is interesting to follow the gradual manipulation of events such that separate entities that ask their own questions and breed their own interest become unavoidably intertwined. The inevitable clash that is constantly looming but always just out of reach fulfills the purpose of creating a nice dramatic effect. There is a voice pulling for them to meet and fight, and another that fears the bloodshed that awaits. As the combatants take on a personality of their own, it becomes harder to look at Kiern and some of his closest companions as villains, and asks sticky but intriguing questions about morality and true necessity when it comes to war, whether it be in our world our theirs. And then, there is the converse question of whether standing silently by and doing nothing for or against an ill-intended cause is better or worse than merely going along with those who enact it. The story would have been weaker and lost some of its pull and appeal without said subplot, of that I have no question.

  "Will there be future stories with Riala, Kiern, and company?" "But who's to say if those'll ever get written...? I have a lot of other stories I want to tell, after all, outside the world of Redwall."
  A true struggle for any author, or any writer for that matter. Is it worth spending time writing something that will always be limited by legal and moral technicalities to a very small audience? Is it more important to talk to those who will listen or risk the outside world possibly not listening? How do you best share ideas, express emotions and make others think about difficult but important issues of thought and action? Would your style have this same effectiveness outside the boundaries of Brian Jacques' world? Why do you want to write original work, for yourself or for others? Is this audience and reasoning good enough, or do you think you'll get more pleasure and satisfaction continuing to write this kind of material? Is there enough time and enough will to do both and accomplish whatever goals you have? Hard but vital questions, where mistakes may or may not allow time to be rectified.

  • My reply:
    "Is it worth spending time writing something that will always be limited by legal and moral technicalities to a very small audience?"
    Yes, I think so. Even if I touch only a couple people--even if I only touched one--that's enough. That's incredible! But the main use, for me, of fanfiction is that it's a great place to hone my writing skills. Work out the kinks in a setting where I don't have the subconscious question of "good enough for publishing?" somewhere in the back of my mind. I always always write first for myself, because I love to write and there are stories I want to tell--but there's always that possibility, that thought tickling the subconscious of could it be shared, could it be published, could it could it could it?, whether I want to think about it or not. So it maybe affects the writing and, more so than that, how I view my writing.
    But with fanfiction, there's no thought of ever publishing it, of any dire judgment on the piece. I can write it for me without any other agenda, and then share it with others who may or may not like it. If they like it, then great! I'll have touched someone. If they don't like it, then who cares? They're not paying for it or anything. And if they give me critiques, then that's the best yet, because it means I can get help on improving--which I'm always looking to do. I think, even after I get published (if I do, but it's always best to think of when rather than if... optimism does have its place!), I will still write fanfiction for the pure enjoyment of playing in another's world and the pure joy of writing for writing's sake.
    
    "Is it more important to talk to those who will listen or risk the outside world possibly not listening?"
    Neither, I don't think... I think it's most important to get out what you want, what you need to say. You can always find someone who will listen, even if only on a miniscule scale; why not toss your words out to the world and see what mind catches their fervor?
    
    "Why do you want to write original work, for yourself or for others?"
    Myself. Definitely myself. I have a thousand stories in my head, a thousand characters and themes, many of which can't best be expressed in the confines of Jacques' world. I have worlds in my head, multiple universes, as many who write do, and I have begun fleshing out a couple of those--and I wish to write in them. (Or finish what I have begun writing in them...! That's my main problem... finishing what I start. VQ took me 4+ years because I kept stopping and starting!)
    
    "Is this audience and reasoning good enough, or do you think you'll get more pleasure and satisfaction continuing to write this kind of material?"
    Yes. ^_~ By which I mean both. I want to continue writing Redwall fics; I very much enjoy it, and I still want to follow the lives of Kiern and Riala and the rest--their lives and minds are fascinating, and I'd like to know what happens to them! But I want to and enjoy writing other sorts of material too--journaling, essays, original fiction, and so on. So... I shall probably work on both. My original stories will simply have higher priority, is all.
• Novlue:
  I read chapter 6. That’s about where I left off, so I finished it tonight. I don’t read much of this anymore (fanfiction in general), but you asked about it a few times, and this IS the story that sucked me into the RFF. For tradition’s sake, here’s one of my disjointed reviews.
  The methods Kiern used to recruit that family of foxes was ingeniously twisted, cruel and crafty. Those woodlanders were fucked either way. The ending results weren’t entirely successful, too, which gives this story more gravity, makes it more “realistic” to me. The characters, as stated by nearly everyone that’s read bits of VQ, are not like Brian’s mice or rats. These are patchworks of human emotions/desires and uncertainty... especially from Kiern. He easily stands out the most. He is the most stable, the strongest, but he is fiercely intelligent, nearly... humane. He’s a closet humanitarian. *laughs* Speaking of closets... Stormsong seems a little fruity. He’s so cute! Especially when he got pissed off and talked down to one of the doomed goodbeasts. I think he’s got an eye out for the Captain of the Nightclaws? He wouldn’t be the only one... well, Astarte gets around, so maybe her interest in Kiern would be more of an impersonal thing, more of a... business thing? So much going on with these characters. You’ve built them into something the reader comes to learn about, begins to connect or digest, adding to the drama or whatever might ensue when Riala confronts them. Do we want these people to die? They aren’t one dimensional Redwall villains. I don’t think Kiern deserves to die, not even after what he did: Riala has sinned just as horribly. All of them have, so you have to really decide who you’re rooting for. And Woodrell is the horde’s RECORDER? That’s a new one. Obviously, these “villains” are different in ever sense of the word when once again compared to BJ’s vermin. Organized, well-to-do... properly fed. *amused* Again, you’re stuff is well written with few typos. It’s so fantasy-ish, but it’s totally not bubblegum, not when you get down to the really ugly shit. That contrast between light, disarming passages and brutal descriptions/shock during battles, the vicious moments in dialogue or scenes, then developments that aren’t tedious or distracting from the story... you aren’t one of the top five writers here for nothin’. Good piece so far. I’ll be sure to finish the rest of it by the end of this week.
• Novlue:
  Good God... yeah, still way good stuff... now all that's left is Chapter 8.
  Kiern is driving me insane! What’s this guy’s problem... I can’t believe he let that happen to Stormsong. Of all people, you’d think the Captain would forsake his priorities for the healer. Kiern seems rather neutral, sexually, doesn’t care either way, so it sucks that other people’s lives are being destroyed because of his indifference. And even after taking those arrows for Nightdeath... come ON, Kiern. This stoat is programmed, but it’s such an unfortunate thing because he’s not devoid of emotions. The only thing that’s more astonishing, and possibly the most astonishing thing about this whole chapter, is Darkmoon’s sudden show of some character, some dimensions. It was her that killed Stormsong, showed some kind of compassion for someone that altogether loathed her. Nightdeath is even more wicked and delightfully hate-able this time, offhandedly deciding that Kiern should be left for dead, then ordering the execution of the one healer he knew that could be trusted because of his homophobia. The torture scene was heartless and despairing, almost made me lose my faith in Kiern completely (the lute smashing scene was the epitome of gut wrenching). He did right to later “choose” Astarte, but he inexorably destroyed anything he had with Skyfire, who will now most likely disappear. This chapter is probably a million times better than the last. I’m exaggerating, but God damn... also, you didn’t rush Kiern’s recovery process. It actually took him a significant/realistic amount of time to get better. Again, nothing is boring here. Some random typos, but I don’t think I need to point those out. All I have left is the last chapter, but after this, I’m dreading the thing...
• Topaz Blackthorn:
  Aha! Wonderful news, Snowspine!
  Except... oh, dear. The last chapter was good. I'm not saying the ending was bad. It just seemed to end a little... oddly. Not as well as it could have...
  There might have been too much concentration on the theme of rape. It detracted a little from the impact of the earlier scenes. The Hyacinth-Strongpaw business did not really need it, and it didn't add anything to Malaya's personality. There are plenty of other terrible things that vermin can do to their captives. Stormsong's fate started to look less terrible with the constant repetition.
  The Malcan subplot was probably the worst of it. For one thing, we never really knew Malcan as a person - he seems rather vague and nondescript for such a pivotal role. Second, the plot seems rather... cheesy. If you swapped the genders it would be just another rescued-princess tale, and while the death of Sydelle is shocking it seems a bit cheesy and artificial too. I can understand why she might make a final effort to tell Malcan she forgave him, but it makes less sense than it could. Third, we hear very little about their courtship. One minute he's telling her she can't die because he loves her, the next they're engaged... Presumably Riala was in a coma for long enough that most of it occurred then, but it still seems like awfully quick work, and considering how important Malaya is we really should hear more. Finally: Riala finds very little resolution at the end, whereas Malaya meets literally a fairy-tale ending with every loose end tied off in a bow. It doesn't match. And they're separated. Considering how close they seemed to be, they separated with remarkably little fuss - we just didn't hear enough about the emotions behind it. I understand that Riala went on to do other things and you need to explain why she did those things unnaccompanied by sidekick, and certainly marrying the poor girl off is better than killing her... But this is not some half-hearted walk-on part you're dealing with. It's Malaya, a three-dimensional, fully realised character who was the only person Riala loved since her father's death. You can't just toss her aside that way!
  And Astarte... I had considered the possibility of Kiern and Astarte getting together, but I'd decided it was probably out of character on her part - but since she was such an enigma back then, I couldn't rule out the possibility. I was just hankering to know more of the truth about that stoat. And then the truth was revealed, and it seemed a bit disappointing. I was assuming she was a decent, caring creature underneath all the toughness... But the decent, caring creature seemed to have lost her edge. I was assuming the real Astarte would retain more of the toughness and manipulation. The bit about her healing skills (how well did she know Stormsong? It's starting to sound like they were pretty close) didn't seem to fit. I won't say that was a bad ending - it just looked like Astarte was a bit out of character.
  It wasn't all bad. Pilaris was delightful. And Kiern stayed brilliantly Kiern (I vote him the second best character on the ROC, nearly as good as Stormsong) to the end. His final choice... and his comment about Nightdeath dying with honour, that was unforgettable. I really would love to hear about the Nighthunt's future.
  I am sorry. I am very, very sorry. But... well, insincere praise won't help anything, and maybe if I say this it'll help you to rewrite Chapter 8 to be as glorious as Chapters Six and Seven. You were so extraordinary for a while there that the story deserves an equally wonderful ending.
  • My Reply:
    Aww, man... drat. x_x
    Okay, okay. Chapter 8 was rather rushed. I should've taken my time on it. I just wanted to get it over and done with. I set myself a deadline (which was before I moved into college, which I'd hoped was before the RFF came back up, which it was), and worked nonstop to meet it. Doing so was, perhaps, a bad idea.
    Maybe I'll have to rewrite it, as you suggested. I wasn't happy with the ending either; revelation of Astarte's true character felt too quick and too much, Malcan + Malaya felt not quite right and rushed, and the Riala-coma-recovery and Riala leaving was VERY rushed. x_x I admit it. I got lazy. Very lazy. And rushed it.
    Sooooo... maybe I'll rewrite it. For now, eh, I've got plenty of other things that take priority. But I'll probably rewrite it when I get a chance.
    Though I've got to get more ink for my printer first... >_>;
• Highwing:
  Well, last Thursday and Friday I finally got around to reading the conclusion of "VQ" ... and now I'm finally getting around to posting comments on it. The Saturday block party and other IRL socializing/catching up that took place this weekend pretty much ate up all my time, but now I'm back ... with a Vengeance!
  *ducks*
  Yes, I did say last Thursday and Friday. Snowy, m'dear, you may call these chapters, but methinks they bear relation to no other chapters that exist in the real world. Each one's more like a novelette, or even a short novella. If you do anything with "VQ" in future, you might want to consider breaking them up into smaller, more easily-digestible real chapters, so that potential readers might not be so intimidated by having to swallow such a humongous chunk of story. Trust me, I know a thing or two about epics myself ... ^_~
  Now, on to actual commentses. I'd originally planned to say nothing but good things about the conclusion of "VQ" - how it was a magnificent end to a magnificent journey that you've been working on for 5 1/2 years and I've been following for at least three of those years. But, after reading Topaz's critique, I'm afraid I must admit that her views have some credence. Let's see where I agree with her, and where I don't ...
  Does the ending feel rushed? Well, yes and no. Yes, definitely, in relation to what immediately precedes it ... but no, in terms of either what's acceptable (or even expected) in the Redwall worlds of both the official books and fanfiction, or in comparison to the earlier parts of the story. You yourself said that one of the most interesting things about "VQ" is the way it documents your development as a writer over a number of years, and the final chapter fits this theme to a T. You start off with a very traditional tale for the first few chapters, start to introduce unorthodox subtleties and underthemes with Riala's long convalescence and the introduction of the Wanderers, then dive into a universe of character development and motivations and psychological examinations far beyond almost any other Redwall fanfic I've ever read ... and then at the end you shift back into more the kind of narrative that commenced the fic, with an emphasis on action and plot rather than character development. Indeed, the ending only seems rushed because of that detour you made - especially in the scenes with the vermin horde - into a realm of introspection and personalities that dared to delve deep. Does this mean the ending is less than it could be? Again, yes and no. Perhaps it's more of a clash than anything else, caused not so much by anything lacking in the final chapter as by the richness in the two chapters leading up to it. I would argue, however, that the traditional resolution you chose is informed by those penetrating glimpses you gave us into these characters and their motivations. And if it were up to me, I would encourage you not to go back and put anymore of your time and effort into "fixing" this, unless you decide it's something you definitely want to do. It's perfectly fine as it stands. Just as the early chapters reflect your early skill levels at the time that you wrote them, so this last chapter and epilogue reflect that you'd decided to finish "VQ" on a self-imposed deadline, faced with the very real possibility that it might come down to a choice between doing it that way or never finishing it at all - which is fine. The quality of the writing certainly doesn't suffer; it's only the compactness of events which might raise an eyebrow, and again that's only because you spoiled us with such expansive and in-depth narrative for the run of a couple of chapters. Did you write too little at the end ... or too much in the middle? Both sections are superb, and the climax is bolstered by what led up to it. It's your choice as a writer to tell the story you want to tell in the way you want to tell it ... or the way you have to tell it, as the case may be. I really have no cause for complaint; I deem "VQ" to be a magnificent accomplishment, one of the very best - and perhaps the best-written - of all Redwall fanfics. Thank you for finishing it for us, however you may feel about the end results. It is a gift to Redwall fans.
  And now, godammit, I find this review half-written as my own self-imposed time limit for composing it is about to expire. I have lots more to say, but it shall have to wait for another time. I'll get to it when I can!
• Highwing:
  Okay, time now to finish up what I started a week ago. Last time out, I dwelt upon the suddenness of the story's resolution in relation to the two or three chapters that immediately preceded it. I think that horse has been flogged about as much as it can be. Time now to focus on other things, specifics that I feel are comment-worthy. And, since Topaz did such a good job of covering so many plot points in her critique, I'll take her review as a cue for my own.
  "There might have been too much concentration on the theme of rape. It detracted a little from the impact of the earlier scenes. The Hyacinth-Strongpaw business did not really need it, and it didn't add anything to Malaya's personality. There are plenty of other terrible things that vermin can do to their captives. Stormsong's fate started to look less terrible with the constant repetition."
  I can see Topaz's point, but here's another way to look at the subject. Either sex (and therefore rape) exists in the Redwall universe, or it doesn't. BJ keeps his novels absolutely free of all sexual references, and even goes very light on basic romance, since he views his works as moralistically simple adventure tales for younger readers. Obviously mating and reproduction happens, and as I've argued previously elsewhere, it seems to me that the creatures in the Redwall world are so human in terms of their personalities that sex for pleasure most probably does exist in their universe ... and if it feels good, then there's a very good chance that it would be abused by the hedonistic vermin of that world. (Whether they would go so far as to play hierarchical sex games for purposes of social climbing and dominance, as Snowspine depicts in the horde, is another question - but her decision to delve into that area is just one way in which "VQ" resonates on so many levels.) Which means, quite simply, that rape would not only exist but be commonplace, just as it was in our own medieval era. I find no fault with Snowy for having this be a part of the lives of numerous characters in "VQ," since that's how it really might be. As to whether this diminishes the impact, that's a matter for the individual readers to decide for themselves. It should be pointed out, however, that what happened with Stormsong was more a case of sodomy than traditional rape, so it still does stand out from the other instances in the story ... as it should. I personally didn't feel the theme was being run into the ground, although the interrogation scene with the two otters could probably be made to work just as well without it. Author's call.

  "The Malcan subplot was probably the worst of it."
  Here I must disagree. Was Malcan the strongest character in "VQ?" No, not by any means. When Riala and Malaya first encountered him, I knew there was more to him than he was letting on, and runaway Floret royalty was one of several possibilities that occurred to me. (Another was that Floret might already have been attacked and occupied and that he was one of the few survivors who'd managed to escape, but I quickly abandoned that idea when all the squirrels actually met up and it was clear no such calamity had taken place.) When this was revealed to be the truth, I was not at all disappointed by how "predictable" that development was; just because a plot twist can be anticipated doesn't automatically make it unworthy. This perhaps is an example of how Chapter Eight more closely follows the norms of the official Redwall novels rather than the more layered treatment Snowy gave us in Chapters 5-7. I thought Malcan was a lot of fun, and enjoyed reading him. Could more have been done with him? Almost certainly ... but then it wouldn't be the story we have before us now. I will agree with Topaz that the most glaring deficiency of Malcan's story is his courtship with Malaya, especially at the very end - but then, that's more to do with the way in which the plot is divugled than Malcan's character per se ... and we've already talked enough about that.

  "And Astarte... I had considered the possibility of Kiern and Astarte getting together, but I'd decided it was probably out of character on her part - but since she was such an enigma back then, I couldn't rule out the possibility. I was just hankering to know more of the truth about that stoat. And then the truth was revealed, and it seemed a bit disappointing. I was assuming she was a decent, caring creature underneath all the toughness... But the decent, caring creature seemed to have lost her edge. I was assuming the real Astarte would retain more of the toughness and manipulation. The bit about her healing skills (how well did she know Stormsong? It's starting to sound like they were pretty close) didn't seem to fit. I won't say that was a bad ending - it just looked like Astarte was a bit out of character."
  Again, I disagree. Did Astarte lose her edge or veer out of character? I don't think so. It's just a case of revealing what was always there but kept very carefully hidden - and for good reason. Personally, I thought she was utterly reprehensible and beyond redemption when she was first introduced ... but then, that was precisely the kind of persona she chose (or felt forced) to project. We got an eyeful of her as the calculating whore in her first few scenes, and so that was thoroughly enough established that Snowy didn't have to keep up that side of her when her true nature came out. In fact, I think the manner in which we're first shown that there's more to Astarte than meets the eye - with her merciful shooting of Stormsong - provides the perfect bridge between the "bad Astarte" and the one who eventually earns Kiern's favor. I think their relationship unfolds and develops at a nearly perfect pace, and the fact that she wades into battle as a lethal warrior during the climactic confrontation is sufficient to show that she's hardly gone soft ... especially when it's revealed in the Epilogue that she slew the formidable otter captain. I can honestly say that I ended up liking this character enormously, while I started out despising her ... and that's quite a feat.

  "Pilaris was delightful."
  Here here! Although, wasn't his name Pilar? Wotever. He's another one I'd lump together with Malcan as more in the traditional BJ mold - a character cast from that long line of colorful and humorous supporting players who add a lot to the proceedings without ever taking center stage. Riala and Kiern might dominate this tale, but it wouldn't be "VQ" - or any kind of true Redwall tale, for that matter - without the supporting cast. And Pilar/Pilaris is a welcome addition to that hall of fame. (It's also worth noting how Riala and Malaya come to rely on him so much for reconnassaince - something you'll want to look out for when you read further into my Urthblood saga, Snowy.)

  "And Kiern stayed brilliantly Kiern (I vote him the second best character on the ROC, nearly as good as Stormsong) to the end."
  Kiern was indeed brilliant ... an even better character than Stormsong, IMO. There might be better characters in other RFF ... but I'll be damned if I can think of any. One thing, though - Kiern has tremendous depth because you take us right into his head and we agonize over his moral dilemmas right along with him. I might argue that there are other characters in Redwall fanfiction that are just as well-rounded, but they might not seem that way at first blush, simply because the authors chose to imply characters' complexities rather than lay them out for the reader to see. This prompts an interesting question: if a character contains a wealth of levels and complexities, but the author doesn't fully explore them, hinting instead of describing them outright, is that truly a complex character, or merely a missed opportunity ? But I digress ...

  "His final choice... and his comment about Nightdeath dying with honour, that was unforgettable. I really would love to hear about the Nighthunt's future."
  This is what I meant in my previous post when I said that what happened in Chapter Eight, even if it did seem a bit rushed, was informed and bolstered by what had preceded it. Kiern's decision not to intervene in Riala and Nightdeath's single combat was another plot twist that, like Malcan's true identity, I foresaw ... and yet it wouldn't have been the least bit believeable without all the soul-probing you gave us in the two previous chapters, and knowing it was coming didn't diminish its effect in the slightest. It almost seemed ordained to unfold that way, and I was not the least bit disappointed that it did. One minor thing, though, and I'll admit I'm too lazy to go back and check it right now: Was single combat between Riala and Nightdeath actually declared, or merely implied? If the latter, then Kiern's inaction might indeed be seen as treasonous, which is quite different than refusing to be part of his master's treachery. His commander was in dire trouble, and unless the rules under which Nightdeath was fighting prohibited outside interference, then it seems to me that Kiern would have been compelled to assist the wolverine - and his decision not to would be dishonorable. This is another thing that also pertains to my Urthblood stories, as I hope you'll see when you get to that part of the saga.
  Yes, yes, yes, we must have more stories of these characters! Whether or not one thinks "VQ" ended too abruptly, these beasts are gold, and there are riches to be mined in their future exploits. You know you're onto something good when the audience is left demanding more stories with the personalities you've created. This more than anything else testifies to just what an achievement "VQ" is.
  Let's see, what else? Well, I'm glad you spent such a long time in Southsward. I must admit, the more you delved into the structure of the royal squirrel court and their otter guard, the more I felt that you were building to some grand battle, and I was growing legitimately excited by the prospects of how you were going to resolve things. (This might be one reason why Topaz and others felt the ending didn't live up to the rest; even within Chapter Eight itself, you foreshadow a major clash of opposing armies, or perhaps even a prolonged siege with various opposing strategies playing out, and that pre-emptive attack by the Floretines on Nightdeath's camp didn't quite fulfill the promise of an apocalyptic conflict.) The only thing that bothered me a little about this part of the story was how easily Nightdeath's spies were able to get in and out of the castle; I know you made a conscious decision to focus only on the main named characters, but I think a scene or two showing the details of these infiltrations would greatly strengthen the plot, rather than having the scouts and assassins simply appear suddenly amidst the woodlanders. Then again, I myself tend to dwell on the logistics of such situations, so maybe it's just me.
  And I think that's really it. Loved the story, loved the characters, would love to see more of them ... and while I could probably find other things to quibble about that I might have done differently, it's your story, not mine. Reading it gave me great pleasure; as with my other favorite Redwall fanfics, it gave me the sense of being on a grand journey, one that left me feeling enriched and maybe just a little bit better for having made it. Congratulations, Snowy! It's a minor masterpiece, and a major achievement in the annals of the RFF! Now go get some sleep!

  • My Reply:
    "the interrogation scene with the two otters could probably be made to work just as well without it."
    Which is probably very true. However, the scene with the two otters was placed there to show growing stress on Kiern's values, to push him farther, to make him compromise more. So the more conflict it had with his morals, the more he had to compromise, the better. That was the whole reason for that scene, and that was the reason I had Hyacinth raped. Because Kiern had to sit through it, even endorse it.

    "This perhaps is an example of how Chapter Eight more closely follows the norms of the official Redwall novels rather than the more layered treatment Snowy gave us in Chapters 5-7."
    Then again, do remember that chapter 8 returns to Riala. The sections with Riala were always more traditional than the portions of story involving the horde, simply because BJ's treatment of vermin and horde life never seemed gritty or accurate enough to me. The horde is less traditional (and more complex, and more layered) because it focuses on a darker, less "cultured" lifestyle, with all the darkness and cruelty and vulgarity that BJ usually skims over. So chapter 8 was also a return to a more Redwallish feel. Perhaps too abrupt a return after the complexities of the horde chapters? Maybe.

    " I can honestly say that I ended up liking this character enormously, while I started out despising her ..."
    Yay! Is what I wanted. I wanted the reader to start out really disliking her, then not sure whether to like or hate her, and then gradually warm to her. Kinda like Kiern did. Glad it worked for you at least. n_n;

    "Yes, yes, yes, we must have more stories of these characters! Whether or not one thinks "VQ" ended too abruptly, these beasts are gold, and there are riches to be mined in their future exploits. You know you're onto something good when the audience is left demanding more stories with the personalities you've created. This more than anything else testifies to just what an achievement "VQ" is."
    *blush* Thank ye! ^^; I probably will write more stories with Riala and Kiern and maybe others as well. I like them too much not to. And they definitely have more tales to be told... I want to expand on "Soulfires", for instance. Reeeally want to expand on it. And there's the question of Kiern's sister. And such.

    "Even within Chapter Eight itself, you foreshadow a major clash of opposing armies, or perhaps even a prolonged siege with various opposing strategies playing out, and that pre-emptive attack by the Floretines on Nightdeath's camp didn't quite fulfill the promise of an apocalyptic conflict."
    ...eheh... yes, that was a cop-out on my part. :-/ I HATE WRITING BATTLES. Hate it hate it hate it. I think I've mentioned how much I hate it before. But it wasn't just a way to keep me from having to write a complex battle. There was strategy in it as well. The Nighthunt could have poisoned food and water in the castle; they didn't, because the Longclaws wanted them alive. But by assassinating the queen (an attempt to make the Floretines nervous and sleepless and watching their every shadow, therefore more vulnerable to attack--but the plan backfired and the Floretines struck early instead), the Longclaws inadvertantly spurred Castle Floret into attacking early in one massive strike. Floret couldn't afford to wait out a siege, not with the possibility of poisoning. And they had to ambush, because otherwise the highly skilled (albeit somewhat smaller) forces of the Nighthunt would have probably defeated them, or killed far too many.

    "I think a scene or two showing the details of these infiltrations would greatly strengthen the plot, rather than having the scouts and assassins simply appear suddenly amidst the woodlanders. "
    ...probably true. :-/ I didn't think of showing details of the infiltrations. I probably should have. But it didn't even cross my mind... Though I did establish the incredible skill of the Nighteyes (and, to an extent, the Nightblood) early on in chapter 6, so I'm not sure if showing details was needed. Interesting, it would have been, for sure... and maybe it would strengthen the plot. Maybe. Not sure if I agree with you entirely on this point. Somewhat, certainly, but not entirely.

• Frost:
  I've gotta give some props to Snowy . . . fantastically awesome! W00t. I've dived in to the first five chapters, and I can't wait to read more. Great job!
• Topaz Blackthorn:
  I suppose I should clear up what I said earlier about rape. VQ was threatening to become a story about rape, which it wasn't supposed to be - it was supposed to be a story about Riala and Kiern, and it landed uncomfortably somewhere in between.